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Auto-selection of titlebar images works, however...

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sfwrtr
212 discussion posts
Two items:

[list type=decimal]
  • There are no default images for the toggle selections... oops!
  • Are you sure you want to put a default button on the title bar after installing? Do you default to multi-monitor task bars being on? This change feels obtrusive, IMHO. The buttons also have previous discussed issues that make DF look (pardon me for saying this) amateurish where everything else looks professional. I would suggest, at least, a poll on the issue.
  • [/list]
    Jul 21, 2009  • #1
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    benway
    342 discussion posts
    Quote:
    Two items:

    [list type=decimal]
  • There are no default images for the toggle selections... oops!
  • Are you sure you want to put a default button on the title bar after installing? Do you default to multi-monitor task bars being on? This change feels obtrusive, IMHO. The buttons also have previous discussed issues that make DF look (pardon me for saying this) amateurish where everything else looks professional. I would suggest, at least, a poll on the issue.
  • [/list]

    sfwrtr, could you go into more detail about the "previous discussed" button issues? From what I see they look professional, are rock solid and have no lag.

    On having a button go up by default: I think this is toggled if you turn the multi-taskbar on and also is to show most people (who may never go into settings) that there are buttons available. I suppose Jon could pop up a dialog box on installation (or first run) that shows the buttons in place and how to turn them on....)
    Jul 22, 2009  • #2
    Jon Tackabury (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
    @sfwrtr: Let me see if I can address your 2 points:

    1. These new images will be coming in an upcoming beta.
    2. Sorry for the confusion. The TitleBar Buttons feature won't be enabled by default, but a button will be created by default, so that if the person does enable the feature they will already have a button there ready to use.

    Does this help?
    Jul 22, 2009  • #3
    Jon Tackabury (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
    @sfwrtr: Sorry, I forgot to address the "amateurish" part. Can you outline again what you feel still needs more polish? Thanks!
    Jul 22, 2009  • #4
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    sfwrtr
    212 discussion posts
    Sorry to use a loaded word, but I am also a writer (i.e., sf - writer) and it did get your attention.

    First off, your product is professional grade, no questions there. And so far as I can tell, there is nothing that you can do to make titlebar buttons perfect because of Windows limitations. Whilst they work well most of the time, the buttons are not actually part of the UI. That you made them appear non-MS is brilliant; there is no confusion that MS had something to do with it Unfortunately, because they aren't generated by the UI, they appear a fraction of a second after the Window is shown. They disappear a fraction of a second after the Window disappears, is minimized, or maximized. If you are running a wierd UI vendor's program, like Adobe CS4, they highlight how out-of-spec they are (i.e., both Adobe and DF's titlebar buttons). And if the CPU is pegged (or even above 50%), you get a mouse-tails (or rather a button-tails) affect when you move any Window. The user is not expecting any of this behavior.

    This is no defect of your program or design so far as I can tell. The problem is I know this, but most of your audience, i.e., the programming-muggles, haven't a clue. The result is, well, it doesn't look good....

    I hope that explains what I meant and why I advised against defaulting them to on, and why I suggested a warning label to explain the behavior.

    And I do use the titlebar buttons, now that I am used to them. (And, oh yes, thanks for the clarification above - that makes perfect sense).
    Jul 22, 2009  • #5
    Jon Tackabury (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
    Thank you for the follow-up. :) It's true, there are some situations that are completely out of my control and some that aren't. Let me go over your points:

    1. Appear fraction of a second late: I rely on Window's hooks to inform me when a Window has been created, and as a result I only get that notification after the window is up and running. The delay should be <250ms which I would consider acceptable given the situation.

    2. Disappear too late: This is because of the same limitations expressed in point #1.

    3. Weird UI's: There isn't anything anyone can do about this one. :( Adobe CS4, for example, is custom rendering their own buttons inside their own code. I can't "patch in" to their code and ask them to draw the buttons, like I do for the standard Windows buttons, so short of grabbing screenshots of every custom-drawn application and testing for them it's virtually impossible to match everything.

    4. Trails with high CPU usage: The only way around this is to run DisplayFusion as a high-priority process, which you can easily do now in the Settings.

    I really do appreciate all the feedback, including the nit-picking, because without this feedback DisplayFusion wouldn't be nearly as polished and well-tested as it is today. Thanks! :)
    Jul 22, 2009  • #6
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    sfwrtr
    212 discussion posts
    You're welcome. :mrgreen:

    Too bad you can't nab that WM_NCPAINT message! I totally understand there are things you just can't do. On my machine, I'd say response is actually about 50ms (1/30th of a second), but I can still see movement.

    Even as a high priority process, the buttons still don't stay put nor do they appear/disappear faster. I wanted to demonstrate this using video screen capture, but that will be the subject of a different post. That said, it will probably help when the CPU utilization is high.

    Its probably as good as it gets. Not making it a default behavior was a good idea.
    Jul 22, 2009  • #7
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    benway
    342 discussion posts
    Quote:
    3. Weird UI's: There isn't anything anyone can do about this one. :( Adobe CS4, for example, is custom rendering their own buttons inside their own code. I can't "patch in" to their code and ask them to draw the buttons, like I do for the standard Windows buttons, so short of grabbing screenshots of every custom-drawn application and testing for them it's virtually impossible to match everything.

    Yeah, and watch CS3 and CS4 when they crash. They both loose that custom window and default back to a standard Window's frame and titlebar. So even they are tacking their GUI on top of what's already there. You can't code to that.
    Jul 22, 2009  • #8
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    sfwrtr
    212 discussion posts
    Quote:
    (W)atch CS3 and CS4 when they crash. They both loose that custom window and default back to a standard Window's frame and titlebar. So even they are tacking their GUI on top of what's already there. You can't code to that.


    Hmm... I guess I'll have to peg the CPU with CS4 running and not maximized (do a unsharp mask or something), and shake the window like a rag doll for grins. I'd wager that'll make UI GUI pieces of non-standard stuff wobble. :evil:
    Jul 22, 2009  • #9
    Jon Tackabury (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
    I'm going to mark this topic as complete. I don't think there's much else I can do.
    Jul 23, 2009  • #10
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