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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Ok, so I've been an ActualTools ActualWindowManager user for about a year. I chose that product over DisplayFusion at the time because of their Ignore Deactivation function. I have 5 monitors and while gaming I have the need to click on the other monitors (TeamSpeak, Hulu, NetFlix, logs, monitoring, etc), and Ignore Deactivation allows me to prevent my full screen games from minimizing.

This function is absolutely INVALUABLE to me. The problem I currently have is that the new Nvidia R300 series drivers do not play well wih AWM, causing program crashes anytime a window or program is closed. I have contacted their support and they don't even have the hardware to test against these new drivers yet.

I really like the fact that DisplayFusion seems to be actively worked on and there are regular updates. AWM, while active and we do get updates, have a much slower turn-around time.

What would it take to get "Ignore Deactivation" functionality into DisplayFusion ASAP? Is it something they specifically coded, or is it an extension of the OS that is just hidden from the normal user that you need to allow? I did contact DisplayFusion support a month or so ago and they said they don't have anything planned for this yet.

If this would be useful to you PLEASE LET THEM KNOW! As multi-monitor gaming becomes more common, this is an absolute must.

I'm desperate here. I need something stable!

Thanks!
May 18, 2012 (modified May 18, 2012)  • #1
Keith Lammers (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
It is definitely on our list of things to do, but it's something that has to be coded from scratch, so unfortunately I can't provide a timeline. I'll be sure to post an update when we are able to implement it though.

Thanks!
May 18, 2012  • #2
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Matthew Gordon
9 discussion posts
I generally get around this by running my games windowed mode. Either Windowed (No Border) or Windowed (Maximized) options will still let the game take up the whole screen without window controls, and if the game doesn't have this by default, regular windowed mode at the same resolution as my monitor plus an AutoHotKey script works most of the time. (Ctrl+Alt+F or Ctrl+Alt+G with the script to remove the borders, etc.)
• Attachment: FullscreenMaximized.zip [382 bytes]
May 19, 2012  • #3
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Quote:
It is definitely on our list of things to do, but it's something that has to be coded from scratch, so unfortunately I can't provide a timeline. I'll be sure to post an update when we are able to implement it though.

Thanks!


Time frame? Next month, later this year, next year? What would it take to get it put to the top of the list? =)

...and FYI, windows mode will NOT work for what I am wanting to do, in any capacity.
May 22, 2012  • #4
Keith Lammers (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
Quick question before I give you a ballpark timeline. Would you want it to be a system wide toggle that would affect all games? Or would you want it to be configurable for each specific game?
May 22, 2012  • #5
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Honestly, I could live with a system-wide setting, but I do like/appreciate the ability to do it per game. Honestly though, I end up creating a setting for literally EVERY game I play simply because I always need that functionality.

My only worry would be game(s) that would not play well with it, so maybe enable it system wide with the ability to exclude certain games via executable. Otherwise you may find that some users have issues with it.

Thanks!!!
May 22, 2012  • #6
Keith Lammers (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
Ok, good enough! For 4.0.1 it will need to be system-wide, and then for 4.1 we'll add the ability to disable it for specific apps/games using a Compatibility rule.

We'll add this feature in for 4.0.1 Beta 5 and I'll let you know as soon as it's available to try out.

Thanks!
May 22, 2012  • #7
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voo
8 discussion posts
Just wanted to say that as a long time user myself, this additional feature will be more than welcome and that system wide is just fine.
May 22, 2012  • #8
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Quote:
Ok, good enough! For 4.0.1 it will need to be system-wide, and then for 4.1 we'll add the ability to disable it for specific apps/games using a Compatibility rule.

We'll add this feature in for 4.0.1 Beta 5 and I'll let you know as soon as it's available to try out.

Thanks!


Thank you SOOOO much! Really looking forward to it!
May 23, 2012  • #9
Jon Tackabury (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but we've had to delay this feature until 4.1. The system-wide feature isn't stable enough, and we can't add UI configuration options without requiring translations. The translations would take too much time for this minor release, so we hope to include this in June. Stay tuned! :)
May 23, 2012  • #10
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Quote:
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but we've had to delay this feature until 4.1. The system-wide feature isn't stable enough, and we can't add UI configuration options without requiring translations. The translations would take too much time for this minor release, so we hope to include this in June. Stay tuned! :)


Good enough for me!

Thanks for the update!
May 23, 2012  • #11
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deanis
256 discussion posts
Quote:
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but we've had to delay this feature until 4.1. The system-wide feature isn't stable enough, and we can't add UI configuration options without requiring translations. The translations would take too much time for this minor release, so we hope to include this in June. Stay tuned! :)


What's this from the b5 upcoming list?
Change: Added a new advanced setting called "Prevent Window Deactivation" for forcing games to remain activated when they lose focus
May 23, 2012  • #12
Jon Tackabury (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
Sorry, it's been removed now. We had added that, but it isn't ready for inclusion yet. We'll need to include some UI configuration so it will need to wait until version 4.1.
May 23, 2012  • #13
Keith Lammers (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
Just wanted to follow-up and let you know that this feature is now available in the latest DisplayFusion Beta version (http://www.displayfusion.com/Download/Beta/).

There's now a built-in Function called "Prevent Window Deactivation." Just assign a key combination to it, and then run that key combo once you're in the game, and the game should stay active, even when working with windows on another monitor.

Thanks!
Jun 21, 2012  • #14
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Thanks!!! I'll give it a try!
Jun 22, 2012  • #15
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Tried it out. Doesn't seem to work. Tried several different key combinations with no success. Would be nice to have something show on screen so I know it's being enabled or disabled. At least then I would know if it's supposed to work or if I have a bad key combo.

Thanks!
Jun 25, 2012  • #16
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jelle vergeer
2 discussion posts
Could I ask how this is realized? Catching WM_ACTIVATE messages and setting the wParam always to WA_ACTIVE??
Jun 25, 2012  • #17
Keith Lammers (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
@Chris: Which games have you tried it in? I've just tried it in a couple of games and it seems to work great.
Jun 26, 2012  • #18
Jon Tackabury (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
@Jelle: We are trapping a few messages, WM_ACTIVATE is one of them. Each message has different things that we look for, and has to be handled differently. :)
Jun 26, 2012  • #19
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Quote:
@Chris: Which games have you tried it in? I've just tried it in a couple of games and it seems to work great.


rFactor 1. Will be trying rFactor 2. I have no indication of whether or no anything was activate or not. Is there any way to change a status indicator on the Setting UI? I could have that open on the other screen so I could see if my hotkey did in fact enable this.
Jun 26, 2012  • #20
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Quote:
Quote:
@Chris: Which games have you tried it in? I've just tried it in a couple of games and it seems to work great.


rFactor 1. Will be trying rFactor 2. I have no indication of whether or no anything was activate or not. Is there any way to change a status indicator on the Setting UI? I could have that open on the other screen so I could see if my hotkey did in fact enable this.


Tried rFactor2, same issue. Doesn't work. Those are the only 2 games I run.
Jun 26, 2012 (modified Jun 26, 2012)  • #21
Keith Lammers (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
Ok, I'll download a trial of rFactor 2 and we'll see what we can figure out.

Thanks!
Jun 28, 2012  • #22
Keith Lammers (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
Just tested rFactor 1 (couldn't find a trial for rFactor 2), and confirmed that it indeed doesn't work. We'll check it out and see what we can do.

Thanks!
Jun 28, 2012  • #23
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Any update?
Jul 10, 2012  • #24
Keith Lammers (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
Unfortunately we haven't had a chance to check it out further yet, but it's still on our list :)

I'll be sure to post an update as soon as we have one.

Thanks!
Jul 11, 2012  • #25
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Any update on this? Would REALLY like to see this working sometime soon. I will literally do just about anything to help developers figure out what is needed. I can setup remote sessions for looking at logs, etc, WHATEVER is needed to troubleshoot.

ActualTools has failed miserably at trying to get their product working at all with the new R300 series drivers and I need this working yesterday. Make this work and you have a new customer! I'm not buying until I know it's working though.

Thanks!
Aug 1, 2012  • #26
Keith Lammers (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
@Chris: It's still on our list, we just haven't had a chance to work on it further. We'll certainly let you know if we need any other info, or as soon as we've got it fixed up :)

Thanks!
Aug 2, 2012  • #27
Keith Lammers (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
Ok, we've had a chance to look into it today, and we've made some more changes for the upcoming beta 14.

It turns out that Windows doesn't allow global hotkeys to be run while a full screen game is running, so in order to use the Prevent Window Deactivation Function, you'll need to setup a Window Location rule for the game, to automatically run the Function when the game starts.

Note that some games are just weird, and this Function won't work properly on them. Saints Row 3 is one such game.

More details here: http://www.displayfusion.com/FAQ/#preventwindowdeactivation

Thanks!
Aug 2, 2012  • #28
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Quote:
Ok, we've had a chance to look into it today, and we've made some more changes for the upcoming beta 14.

It turns out that Windows doesn't allow global hotkeys to be run while a full screen game is running, so in order to use the Prevent Window Deactivation Function, you'll need to setup a Window Location rule for the game, to automatically run the Function when the game starts.

Note that some games are just weird, and this Function won't work properly on them. Saints Row 3 is one such game.

More details here: http://www.displayfusion.com/FAQ/#preventwindowdeactivation

Thanks!


Yes, even in AWM, hotkeys do not work. I have those games set to launch with that function activated automatically so that won't be hard to deal with. For what I do, I don't ever want or need it off in a game. As long as this works, I'll be golden!
Aug 2, 2012  • #29
Keith Lammers (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
Sounds good! Beta 14 should be out within a few days, so just let me know how it works out when you get a chance to try it.

Thanks!
Aug 2, 2012  • #30
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deanis
256 discussion posts
Seems like this is an issue with WinAmp, too, which someone resolved by using a keyboard hook instead of relying on RegisterHotKey.

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?t=280594
Aug 2, 2012  • #31
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Ok, got to test this tonight.

It does work, but not exactly as stated.

First, I had to make sure I set Windows Location Mode to 'All Windows'. Second, it doesn't not initiate upon game launch. I had to hit the Ignore deactivation hotkey before it would work. So, I still could not use the hotkey without the location mode set, but it did not initiate it automatically. I had to hit the hotkey after game started to make it work.

That said, IT DOES WORK!! At least for rFactor. =)

Thanks!
Aug 8, 2012  • #32
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Quote:
Ok, got to test this tonight.

It does work, but not exactly as stated.

First, I had to make sure I set Windows Location Mode to 'All Windows'. Second, it doesn't not initiate upon game launch. I had to hit the Ignore deactivation hotkey before it would work. So, I still could not use the hotkey without the location mode set, but it did not initiate it automatically. I had to hit the hotkey after game started to make it work.

That said, IT DOES WORK!! At least for rFactor. =)

Thanks!


***UPDATE***
It's not that Ignore Deactivation isn't working until I hit the hotkey. I've found that upon first launch of the game, the first time you click outside the game it minimizes, but after remaximizing the game, then the Ignore Deactivation function works without pressing any hotkey.

So, It works, but only on the 2nd attempt at clicking outside the window.

Getting there!
Aug 8, 2012  • #33
Jon Tackabury (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
@Chris: Can you try creating a Window Location rule for rFactor, and set it to run the prevent window deactivation" Function when it detects the rFactor process? This will automate it for you, and should fix the issue. :)
Aug 9, 2012  • #34
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
I'm trying to say I already did that. I have the windows location rule in place.
Aug 9, 2012  • #35
Jon Tackabury (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
My apologies, I must have read your post wrong. :( I have had a similar problem, where the activation doesn't take place until you alt+tab out, then go back in. We'll keep investigating what we can do to work around this.
Aug 9, 2012  • #36
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Quote:
My apologies, I must have read your post wrong. :( I have had a similar problem, where the activation doesn't take place until you alt+tab out, then go back in. We'll keep investigating what we can do to work around this.


No problem. Thanks!
Aug 9, 2012  • #37
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Maybe this will help!

Ok, so I notice that when I get in and out of games now I have this weird electronic 'woosh' sound. My guess is, that it makes that sound when Ignore Deactivation is turning on/off. Well, when I launch a game it makes that sound twice (on then off), when I ALT+TAB out and back in it makes another sound (on), and when I finally exit the game, makes the sound again (off).

Sounds to me like the Ignore Deactivation is triggering on and off again at game start instead of just once to stay on.
Aug 9, 2012  • #38
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Any update on this?

Can I look forward to a fix in the next beta?
Aug 13, 2012  • #39
Keith Lammers (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
We are indeed making some changes for the next version that should hopefully fix up this issue :)
Aug 14, 2012  • #40
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Not sure if you intended for the issue with it starting/stopping on first launch, to be fixed with the new release, but it is still not working.
Aug 16, 2012  • #41
Keith Lammers (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
Strange! We changed the code so that once it starts, it couldn't be disabled again by Window Location while the game was running, in case the rule got triggered twice.

Does it still make two sounds when the game starts?
Aug 17, 2012  • #42
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Yes, still makes 2 sounds.
Aug 17, 2012  • #43
Keith Lammers (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
Ok, thanks! We'll keep working on it here, and I'll post another update as soon as we have one.
Aug 17, 2012  • #44
Jon Tackabury (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
@Chris: Can you send us a copy of your debug log while this is happening? For the 2 sounds, are they both activation sounds, or is it activating then deactivating right away still?

support@binaryfortress.com
Aug 17, 2012 (modified Aug 17, 2012)  • #45
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Quote:
@Chris: Can you send us a copy of your debug log while this is happening? For the 2 sounds, are they both activation sounds, or is it activating then deactivating right away still?

support@binaryfortress.com


It's activation and then deactivation still. I'll try and get a log of it.
Aug 17, 2012 (modified Aug 18, 2012)  • #46
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
log sent
Aug 18, 2012  • #47
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Installed new beta and, FYI...

I have successfully been able to make this work with another rFactor/ISI based racing sim called Game Stock Car 2012 by Reiza Studios out of Brazil. However, rFactor and rFactor 2 both are still not working properly. The interesting thing with rFactor 2, is that there is a pre-game menu launch where you choose between offline, online, or mod development. When that launches I hear 1 sound for activation, then when I choose the mode, I hear 2 more sounds and it fails to work properly in game. I also tested this with Race07 through Steam. Steam launch causes 1 sound, while the game causes 2 more and does not work either.
Aug 30, 2012  • #48
Keith Lammers (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
Ok, that is interesting, thanks for the update Chris! This is still on our list of things to fix up, so I'll post an update when we have more news.
Aug 31, 2012  • #49
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Any update?
Sep 19, 2012  • #50
Keith Lammers (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
Not yet, but it's still on our list, and we'll post an update as soon as we have more info :)

Thanks!
Sep 20, 2012  • #51
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Any more info yet?
Oct 24, 2012  • #52
Keith Lammers (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
Sorry, haven't had a chance to follow-up on the changes to 4.2 yet :)

We've added some more logging for the Prevent Window Deactivation function to 4.2, could you try out the Window Location rule again with 4.2 and send a new copy of the debug log? Hopefully it will provide us with some more clues as to what's breaking when it runs.

Thanks!
Oct 24, 2012  • #53
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Keith,

Sorry it took so long to get back. Finally got around to testing and sending logs in. I copied a link to this post into the comments of the support request.

FYI...the executable I was testing was 'rfactor.exe'.

Same result as before. I hear 2 activation sounds. First click on monitor outside full screen game results in shrink to desktop. Remaximize game and all clicks after that do not affect or minimize game.

Chris
Nov 21, 2012 (modified Nov 21, 2012)  • #54
Keith Lammers (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
Awesome, thanks Chris! I've received your email, so we'll have a look at the log and see what we can find.
Nov 22, 2012  • #55
Keith Lammers (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
Ok, so this is strange. I've installed rFactor again, and tested using DisplayFusion 5.0 Beta 4. I hear the window deactivation sound twice as well, but it seems to work (ie. clicks outside full screen rFactor don't cause it to minimize).

What settings do you have enabled in the Window Location rule for rFactor? I have the following:
  • Command Line: blank
  • Use the Current Monitor
  • Window Size: Run the selected Function: Prevent Window Deactivation
  • Window Location Mode: All Windows
If your settings are all the same, please let me know, and I'll compare your debug log to mine, to see if I can spot anything different.

Thanks!
Dec 4, 2012  • #56
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Mine are same as yours. Screen capture of settings attached.

A pic of my setup is also attached, though I don't have the smaller 5th monitor hooked up right now.
Dec 4, 2012  • #57
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
This won't allow me to attach images. Not sure what I'm doing wrong.

*Edit: Had to use Chrome. IE9 sucks!
• Attachment [protected]: IgnoreDeactivation_settings.jpg [131,135 bytes]
• Attachment [protected]: IMG_0155.JPG [2,355,883 bytes]
Dec 4, 2012 (modified Dec 4, 2012)  • #58
Keith Lammers (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
Ok cool, nice setup by the way!

I noticed that you've used D:\* as the application. It shouldn't make a difference, but could you try specifying the full path to rFactor.exe, if you haven't already tried that?

Also, could you try adding a delay in the rule? Maybe 2 or 3 seconds, to see if that helps?
Dec 4, 2012  • #59
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
I have tried to set specific paths and that doesn't seem to work. I'll try and add a delay and test tonight.

What's better, a shorter or longer delay? Assuming longer? Would it be worth trying different lengths for different games based on standard load time to get to screen?
Dec 4, 2012  • #60
Keith Lammers (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
Longer would probably be better, but yeah, basing it around the time it takes to get to the main menu of the game is probably a good start. Try to make it around 2 or 3 seconds longer than what it takes to get to the main menu.
Dec 4, 2012  • #61
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
for rFactor, changed D:\* to D:\*.* without a change. Tried pointing to D:\rfactor\rfactor.exe, no change.

Bumped time to 2, 3, 5, and now instead of 2 quick sounds at launch, only 1 sound once I hit the 'spinner'. Regardless of time up to 5 it happens right away at 'spinner'.

So, I bumped it to 10 and success! WINNING!

I've done some more testing and I have to set a path for each sim in order to get delay working properly as the launcher triggers IngoreDeactivation too soon. Some games, even from SSD, load pretty slow.

Need the following:
1) Would like to see that delay option allow up to 20-30 seconds or even more.
2) Allow duplication of Windows Location options (maybe through right-click menu,,, duplicate, edit, etc)
Dec 5, 2012  • #62
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Wanted to let you know that I did confirm we definitely need more time delay. I have several of the sims I've done additional testing on and 10 seconds is not long enough of a delay.
Dec 6, 2012  • #63
Keith Lammers (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
Ok, thanks for confirming Chris! I'll find out if it's possible to allow for a longer delay and I'll post back when I have more news.
Dec 6, 2012  • #64
Keith Lammers (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
Looks like we should be able to allow a longer delay. We'll bump it up to 60 seconds for 5.0 Beta 6. I'll let you know as soon as it's available.

Thanks!
Dec 6, 2012  • #65
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Zawe
1 discussion post
I don't know if this is going to be fixes in the new beta, but I can't seem to make Battlefield 3 work with the prevent function. Idk if its because of the delay er else. It dose not make the sound when its applied. Could someone give a look?
Dec 10, 2012  • #66
Keith Lammers (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
We had previously tested Battlefield 3 a while ago and weren't able to get it working. However, we'll test it again when we have a chance and I'll keep you posted on what we find out.

Thanks!
Dec 10, 2012  • #67
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
The "competition" is also trying to figure it out...

http://www.actualtools.com/forum/read.php?FID=10&TID=1790&MID=7515&sphrase_id=74096#message7515
Dec 10, 2012  • #68
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Michael Bollinger
3 discussion posts
I don't want to hijack this thread with my own issues, but maybe you can help me. My entire reason for getting displayfusion was because of the "Ignore Deactivation" feature so I could multitask while playing full screen games.

My only problem is that the Ignore Deactivation feature doesn't work with the game I am currently playing, Just Cause 2. I tried some of the suggestions in here like using a timed delay, but nothing seems to work.

Any tips? or is it just a game that isn't compatible?
Dec 12, 2012 (modified Dec 12, 2012)  • #69
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
Do you hear the sound for it when starting the game or at any point after? If not, then it may not be getting triggered properly. I'd post a screenshot of your Window Location settings for that game/app. Also, might be good to make sure you set the Ignore Deactivation hotkey so that you can manually try and start it as well.
Dec 13, 2012  • #70
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Michael Bollinger
3 discussion posts
If I have a delay set I do not hear the sound, but if I don't have a delay i hear the sound but the game still loses focus when I click out of it.

I have also tried using the hotkey. I hear the sound when I press the keys, but when I go back into the game it will lose focus if I click on my second monitor.
• Attachment: window location.jpg [77,405 bytes]
window location.jpg
window location.jpg
Dec 13, 2012  • #71
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Chris Miller
53 discussion posts
After you click out and lose focus and then click back into the game, can you then click out and not lose focus?

Try both with and without the delay doing that. The problem I've always had is that it's always that first time I clicked out that it lost focus. Once I was back in the game, Ignore Deactivation did work after that. For me, the fix has been the longer (10sec) delay. Now I don't lose that focus for the apps that the 10sec delay is long enough to properly initialize that function.

Personally I don't quite understand how ActualTools can initiate their Ignore Deactivation function at software launch and has no problem losing focus. Figure it has to do with when that hook is being established but still makes no sense to me. ActualTools is a better product for my needs, but my problem with ActualTools is two fold right now, 1) they are in Russia and development is slow, and 2) with these new R300 series Nvidia drivers running in 2D surround, there are major issues with the product not hooking into the system properly and causing the PC to become unstable and need a reboot to fix. Ignore Deactivation doesn't work at all anymore. They are basically refusing to purchase the hardware to test and fix, which is why I brought this up here looking for another vendor to supplement at least the Ignore Deactivation function.
Dec 13, 2012  • #72
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Michael Bollinger
3 discussion posts
Quote:
After you click out and lose focus and then click back into the game, can you then click out and not lose focus?

Nope this doesn't work either, I'm just assuming it is just an issue with the game
Dec 13, 2012  • #73
Keith Lammers (BFS)'s profile on WallpaperFusion.com
@Chris Miller: Beta 6 is now available, and the max delay has been bumped up to 60 seconds. Can you give it a try when you have a chance?

Thanks!
Jan 3, 2013  • #74
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